Officers Meeting Thread

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Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Sir-Plumbledoor on Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:21 am

Hello Officers and any members of Exalt Curious as to what we are discussing here
Firstly I'd like to ask that only officers post in this thread so we can discuss potential changes to our Guild, once we decide on what we could do, we will then run it by the rest of the members, as this is our guild, and all of us have a say in how it is run, what we do, and who we are

Secondly, a huge thankyou to all my Officers who have (to put it bluntly) put up with me and my PC on the fritz, I've had multiple ones of you acting as my "Secretaries" as such, so a huge thanks to all of you for helping me out trying to run arrange a simple meeting while at war with technology

Now for the official Buisness, below are some of the things I would personally like to address, I'd like each of the officers to post what they think of my statements and what they would suggest, I would also like you to post any concerns, statements or possible changes you think we could have


- Revise the Ranking Requirements -
I have always thought of Exalt as a guild who helps other knights, I know it helped me get through a few ranks, and I don't believe we should be skill orientated, which is what I honestly think we are currently doing with the tests, as they are very difficult for some, knights could be delightful individuals but not necessarily have the capability to stand alone in the clockworks, the same goes for Officers, out current test of the Gauntlet, some may not be able to do but they could be a very organised individual
One idea I thought of would to have two kinds of Officers, Battle Officers who are capable of the Gauntlet alone and would like to be known to help out in missions and such, and Supervisor Officers who work better at organising and assisting in guild matters

- Revise the Recruitment Process -
As I said earlier, I believe this guild is good at helping knights along, of course we will have to think carefully about how we would do this system or else we would have many recruits who aren't entirely committed to the guild, I noticed the way Aba described the currents requirements for the tests, having a certain gear level to becoming certain ranks, I think something along these lines could work very well, but I would really appreciate your inputs as I'm not sure how we would work these

- GvG Teams -
I was told a while back a group of our members came forward asking for Guild Teams to be arranged, though the idea was denied, I think if the members would still like to set up official teams (Perhaps of certain country areas so it's easier for them to be online at the same time) then we could have that arranged and posted onto our Wiki

There are also a few individuals I would like to reccoment extending the officer title to, though I will run these by you in game to remain anonymous until response

Looking forward to your response, and hopefully I can be online to see you on the 4th
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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  gera on Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:20 am

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Last edited by gera on Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : idk)

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  rhea86 on Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:13 am

Hello, Rhea here ^^

Ranking System

Yes, it's quite skill based. But I think that's because it's easier to test and judge that kind of thing, rather than determine if this person is good within a short time frame. At least 1 person would have spend quite a bit of time with a new member to be absolutely sure he's a good person.

I think going by gear level is good as opposed to skill. Still shows time and effort put into the game (assuming they didn't buy their way through). But does this mean we'll be eliminating tests all together?

Two Kinds of Officers

I wonder if having 2 separate Officers is really necessary. To me, I think having a "Supervisor Officer" type is more essential than having a "Battle Officer" type. When someone asks for help, anyone really jumps in if they're not busy. So, perhaps it's the requirements and the test that needs to be changed (though, I don't know how you would test for organizational skills)? Unless, of course, Battle Officers will have other roles aside from just helping with runs.

I also don't know if by having Battle Officers, we'll run into people who demand for help from them because it's their "job". But then again, I guess if there were these kinds of people, we'd probably be giving them the boot since it's not exactly very polite. But anyway, just a thought.

Recruitment Process
With Mist Well gone, we'll probably get fewer people trying to scam their way in. But nevertheless, the application form doesn't seem to deter every scammer, so a revision would be great. But, I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions for it ^^;

GVG
I don't play Lockdown and Blast Network, I'd probably only play if I want recipes, so I don't have a comment for this one.

EDIT

Aba and I were talking, the promotion tests came up, and I had a thought. If a tester was lying dead the whole time, wouldn't his loot cause the monsters to spawn out of place? This was especially bad for arenas and of course the 8 gun puppies. So, I tested it on the Jelly Arena with my Alt as the dead tester. She died twice and after a few minutes, I saw the loot had stopped spawning (even when you use a Spark of Life, any dropped loot prior to rev'ing is gone). I can't say how long it was exactly, but maybe 5 min or less as I noticed it during the 2nd to last wave of the first room. So, no problems there. Just wanted to share this and let the Officers and GM know ^^


Last edited by rhea86 on Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:04 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added info about Arenas and testing)
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Re: Officers Meeting Thread - Part 1

Post  Aba on Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:31 pm

Hello all!

I first want to thank everyone for their help and advice in everything Exalt. In many ways, it's definitely a great learning experience for me. Especially being the primary guild wiki editor. Several changes to the guild wiki have been made, most of it being rewording and organization (with much suggestions from Rhea, many thanks!). I've also made a proposed change for the Roster section, making sortable tables for each ranking (viewed by clicking on the "talk/discussion" tab on the guild page). Again, review over the wiki and let me know your thoughts and suggestions.

Now to address some topics, beginning with Sir-P's thoughts.

- Ranking Requirements -
On a rank-by-rank basis:
Recruits - If a player is not a friend of a current guildmate, a near 5* set is required. Fulfilling that requirement would fulfill most of the requirements for being promoted to Member a week later. All wanting to join Exalt should fill out the application. Lots of questions. (Rhea had suggested a revision which combines the optional questions, age and country, into one at the end.) Sometimes, applicants may have to fill out the application again because they didn't save the filled out application and the officer/proctor recruiting them did not reply or did not receive the application. (It happens.)

Members - After one week in Exalt, most Recruits are ready to be tested. (Clarifying that the prerequisites are met is rarely necessary.) Availability of a non-beast, non-fiend Tier 2 Battle Arena level (and near the start of Tier 2) is random. (Free elevators to reach the levels to practice and take the test no longer an issue.) Some guildmates say this test is harder than Veteran's. (I failed the first time, even with 5* gear.) A suggestion would be to allow knights to do the test in Normal or Advanced difficulty.

Veterans - Be a Vanguard? Yes, definitely. Is Depth 25 of Firestorm Citadel enough for the test? Probably. The Rocket Puppy room now seems all too easy to complete with the recent dash technique. With Duke runs being done more often than ever for crown-grinding, leave the difficulty at Advanced.

Officers - Not only chosen if there is a need for them, but a high bar was set via the arena battles of The Gauntlet mission (with it covering all monster families and three key status effects). Would a Normal difficulty be allowable?
. Also, do we need more officers? The roster section now has nine, along with some assignments to some of them. Should roles be thoroughly stated per officer to see if there is a need for more? (All I've done to the assignments section is add myself as the primary wiki editor and at the end of the list of primary recruiters. Not stated in assignments is my moderating the free Shadow Lair runs.) ("Geraking makes ten officials. Ten ought to do it, don't you think? You think we need one more? You think we need one more. All right, we'll get one more.")
. As all current officers have passed the test and are currently organizing and assisting in guild matters, it seems all of us are part-battle, part-supervising. Maybe if a knight wants to be an officer but cannot do the test, a suggestion would be for Sir-P to assign minor guild tasks for the knight to do for an extensive period of time, proving himself/herself to be an asset to the guild for the long run.

- Recruitment Process -
Some recruits fit right in, especially after doing several runs with our guildmates before joining Exalt. However, some recruits may need some guidance on yielding better teamwork and guild skills. As our motto suggets, we should keep helping our guildmates to be better teammates. (Unfortunately, the July 30 update made SK more an individualized game.)
. An initial idea (based on personal experiences) would be to add a list of "Teamwork Tips" to the guild wiki.
. Maybe in terms of more officers (Supervisor type) and additional roles, we can have groups of officers, each group working together on a particular role. These can include a group fully-dedicated to recruiting and making sure our new recruits fit in and/or a group fully-dedicated to listening to all guildmates' problems and ideas they have. Or something of the like. Each group containing officers in different time zones and countries and are in SK playing at various times.

- GvG Teams -
Back in the day, Exalt was more into Guild Blast Network than Guild Lockdown. Exalt is actually my first guild where I got my first taste of GBN, with definitely a lot of beginner's luck on my first try.
. GBN requires 4 players per team, GLD 6 players. If a group of Officers (Battle type) and other guildmates can organize times to do a Coliseum competition (and are within the same server or time zone to effectively play), with at least one guildmate knowing contacts from other guilds that would like to battle with them, then it's possible. It may take a while. Patience is key. Smile
. Personally, like Rhea, I play in the Coliseum just for the sake of getting Koins for the rare recipes. I have useful 5* gear on, but of course, there are players that have multi-UV-boosted equipment (and often spam the Polaris). So, when I decide to play some LD or BN for a bit, I try to play enough to get 10 Koins before getting into much frustration. So, I'm available to participate but up to a certain point.

This is getting long already, and it's late in the night. lol
I'll add in more input later. Smile

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Guttler on Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:40 pm

I'm writing a lot of stuff that may sound confusing, but bear with me. I'm also going to spread this out over several posts because I don't want to write the entire thing in one sitting.

1. Revise the Ranking Requirements:
Let me start off this topic not with my own opinion, but instead a history of our guild ranking system to explain why it is the way it is.

So back in 2011 when I first joined Exalt the member test was and has always been a tier 2 arena solo with no deaths and a clean gunpuppy wave. The reason that an arena was used is because Zeeca would run arenas with people and become mad if the waves were spawned poorly and he would die as a result of having 8 puppies + other monsters up. The impetus was that everyone in Exalt should know how to 'properly' do an arena.

Back then the veteran test was only to solo a tier 3 floor without dying and the officer test was a tier 3 arena with no deaths. Veteran rank was also a 'special' rank in that a exalt member had to be invited to take the test by the officer/GM corp so that people couldn't just ask to take there veteran test.

I was the last officer to pass the tier 3 arena officer test, because when I became an officer of Exalt I had a discussion with Zeeca and Aki who was an officer at that time about changing the way we did tests. Officers/GMs would commonly receive the question, "Can I take my veteran test?" which was just a tier 3 floor at the time and it seemed everyone wanted to do it, but we'd have to give them the "You have to be invited to be a veteran." response. I asked them to open up veteran rank to being doable by any member of the guild and see how the system worked. We also changed the tests to make the veteran test a tier 3 arena solo with no deaths and the officer test was FSC d25 all 8 rooms. We had a surge in new people becoming veteran.

I was inactive for a stretch of time, but when I returned to SK I found that the tests had been changed again by now GM Aki. It made the veteran test FSC D25 and the officer test became the arena gauntlet solo.

That is not even the last change to ranking, the final change was made regarding the veteran rank. One day Zeeca came on and said something like "We have too many veterans" and he, Aki, and us officers hashed out a system where to become a veteran you had to get recommended by two other veterans and they'd send mails to the promotion officer, which was Aki at the time, that they recommended such-and-such member for veteran. Once that particular member got 2 veteran votes the promotion officer would cast a 3rd vote and if it was yes they would be eligible for the veteran test, but if it were no then a group of 3+ officers would vote and decide if that person could be veteran. The system did not generate much enthusiasm for the veterans and instead of getting heaps of recommendations we instead got nothing. So the system was again changed so that officers would have to vote on which members would be able to take the veteran test. I was under the assumption that the above system was still in effect until recently when I checked our wiki and found no mention of it. I was guilty on multiple occasions of violating it and just taking members who asked me on there veteran test.

There is a running theme of questions that the officer/GM corp has tried to address over the course of the guilds history.
What do you do with the veteran rank?
So Exalt has tried two kinds of systems for veteran promotion, closed and open.

In a closed system members are chosen from the officer/GMs corp. and only once selected may they take the test to rank up. In the open system, anyone who is a member may request to take the test and get a promotion.

I suppose this seems rather unimportant now since I let the genie out of the bottle probably over a year ago. Exalt has been on an occulting pendulum for the veterans test, from exclusive to open and back again and back the other way. The question is do you want there to only be a small number of veteran but they feel like they've really earned it or just allow anyone to become a veteran if they desire to achieve such a goal. The big problem with our swingy nature is that most people become veteran rank when we allow open promotions, so that even if you wanted to now make it an exclusive rank you'd have people like Ahihi, who is currently veteran rank and passed the test when it was open, but lacks a wide array of 5* gear, and while pleasant to chat and do runs with would probably have never been invited to take the veteran test under a closed veteran system.

GUTTLER'S OPINION: I recommend that you either pursue an open system for veteran promotion, because to from a good closed one would require demotions of people who have been veterans for a long time and those people are also good players. All it does is give the really good players there own special rank. I also favor an open system because that is the rank where people can enter design mode, explained below.

Why have skills tests?
On a certain level testing by skill makes sense, since it allows us to clearly and easily take a player and either say, 'you're ready, go on up rank' or "better luck next time". The thing is that testing by skill makes a lot of sense if we were an elitist end game guild that only wanted to accept and promote the best of the best players who could crush even the hardest skill tests we could invent. The thing though is that we aren't an elitist guild that rates people by there UVs, we are a social guild of friends who run FSC a lot, but not much SL.

On the other hand, using skill tests prompts the members into learning certain tricks; like how to do all 8 rooms in d25 solo. Which means that players gain a better understanding of the game mechanics on SK as they practice and take there rank exams.

On the other other hand, skill testing is biased against players who experience lag, disconnects, or other issues that don't allow us to see there actual skill during a test. (Before I upgraded my OS from snow leopard to lion, I would have terrible lag in any FSC room with large flame vents, which made rooms like 4 button room on d26 and the final room on d27 impossible for me.)

GUTTLER'S OPINION: I am 100% behind the idea of using some other rank system besides skill testing, but I don't have a good idea for what a non-skill test promotion system would be. I would like to look at other guilds wiki pages and see how they do things, maybe there will be good ideas to plagiariz.....emulate.

A word on the officer test: While it's all well and good that an officer can solo very hard content while dragging a dead body. My opinion is that the officer test is too hard with it being the gauntlet. I have tired to solo gauntlet by myself without a dead body and have never successfully soloed it with no deaths.

My excuse, and I feel it is justified, is that the gauntlet mission favors swordsmen who use wolver armors, since I am a gunner none of the arenas are tailor made to my gear, which makes winning extremely hard. Snarbolox armor is the best set for the 2nd arena and vog cub is the best set for the 3rd arena. As a gunner it's impossible for me to get those kind of stat combinations. It's not like I'm some chump with terrible gear, I have guns and armor with great UVs on them, it's just tuned to require very specific gear for soloing and I am not going to roll gunslinger sashes for obscure stat resists that would only help me in soloing a mission I've already cleared.

Story time; I have a friend who works at a grocery store. He works in the freezer, but he recently took what they call a manager test, which had a bunch of questions on it, the kind you would have to know the answers to if you were a manager. The idea is that the store is trying to test you to see what you would do if you were a manager to see how you would lead and if the way you lead would be 'correct'. Well it depends how you define the job of a leader, but I think of a leader in terms of "it's my job to make the tough decisions" so we could make an SK manager test where we give people hypothetical situations and have them explain how to address the problem. In essence, test the mind of an officer in solving the kinds of problems they'd encounter in-game rather then test there reaction time, gear, broadband connection, and flashy tactics.

This is a good place to stop, I'll continue later.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Guttler on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:48 pm

Okay, continuing.

On two different roles: Battle officer vs supervisor officer.

GUTTLER'S OPINION: Ideally you'd want every officer to be able to satisfy both roles, being a strong ally in the clockworks and a capable servant-leader who can assist in any way necessary.

So let's look at it as two sliding scales.
0%------------Battle Skills------------100%
0%--------Supervisor Skills-----------!00%

You'd want any potential officer to have a good score on both scales, but I want to look at some extreme cases.

Let's say you have someone who is a master leader, great at helping and organizing events, but they just do terrible in clockworks. In essence a 100% on supervisor and a 0% on battle. I wouldn't have any problem with someone like this becoming an officer, even if they wouldn't be able to assist in parties.

The other extreme case is the super skilled player with awesome UVs who can do any run no matter how difficult without a spot of trouble, but their super skill in clockworks or LD was there only credit and they were helpless in assisting with guild matters. The score would be 100% battle, but 0% supervisor. I am strongly opposed to this kind of person being an officer because it means that they're only role can be to carry people through hard content.

I feel that the creation of a formal 'battle officer' rank would be unhealthy for Exalt. I'm predicting a future in which say we have the two ranks, we'd have veteran who would want to take the officer test just to be a battle officer because it's a status symbol of there elite skills. How would we handle veterans who could easily complete even the hardest officer test possible and were asking to be promoted to battle officer, especially if they had superior skills to someone who was currently a battle officer?

I think one of the best things would just to have every officer be a supervising officer who is fully trusted and capable of handling any and all situations required of them and if we have people now who make for poor supervisors we should have some officer training and see if that remedies any problems.

2. Revise the Recruitment Process.

Back in the day people would just ask, "Can I join your guild?" and we would and could just take them on a trail run and then invite them. I'm rather happy we have an application, it means that people you recruit usually want to be in your guild and it lets us get to know them a bit first. Continuing I want to look at some of the questions asked by the recruitment process like I did with rank.

Whose job is it recruit?
What is recruitment? My view on recruitment is that when you see a knight without a guild you should ask them if they'd be interested in joining Exalt or if I see a knight from another guild who hangs around our guild hall, they can be asked to join. I generally try to avoid pestering people who are already established in guilds if they'd like to join unless I know that they are seeking a new home in spiral knights. I think that it should fall on every officer, veteran, member, and recruit to extend a welcoming hand to any stranger that would like to become a future comrade and friend. I think we handle this pretty well currently, since most people join because they know someone in Exalt already and enter our growing community.

Oh, let me draw a difference here between how we do things and how other guilds do thing. In Exalt we do passive recruiting, that is we let people find us and decide to join if they want to, maybe some people receive a personal invitation from a current guild member, but we don't do what other guilds do, which is actively recruit. Back when Lionheart was a smaller guild, it was common to see there GM shouting in zone chat for people to come and join Lionheart. While active recruiting gets you more members faster I feel it detracts from the friendly caring atmosphere that Exalt has for the sake of having high numbers of people and a high amount of daily activity. Also, since we don't charge a tax having a high member roster is not necessary.

Whose job is it to process applications?
Right now we only have 4 people from the officer/GM corp who are supposed to handle applications. Whenever I have a potential recruit I have to direct them to the application and then tell them to send it to someone who is probably not online, so that they have to wait to have there application looked at. While I see no problem with a waiting period, some application have had to wait and excessively long time seen and processed. My thought is that any officer or above should be able to review an application, just like any officer can take someone on there trail run before they join. The problem with allowing for anyone to handle applications is that it makes for an inconsistent acceptance system. I look at an application and I approve it, you look at that same app and you'd of rejected it. I would like to see the amount of officers who can handle applications expanded to include either all officers or at least most of them, but then I also want to see a discussion about what to look for in a guild application to Exalt so that each officer can be consistent in the type of app they accept or reject. It would be easy to test various officers officers on this too because you could make some 1* alt and write a fake application and send it to 2 or 3 officers and see the verdicts, so that you could determine if someone in particular is being too harsh or too lax in there judgment of apps.

I'm making a pretty good case as for how and why some special officer training could really benefit Exalt. I'd be interested in hearing some feedback on what do you guys think of a training program.

Requirements for joining/advancing in rank
We already have gear requirements for advancing in rank if we keep skills tests for veteran/member rank. Veteran requires vanguard which is full 5*. We have a full 3* gear with at least one 4* weapon for member too, but I have never enforced that on someone who wanted to take the test, I am not sure how the other officers feel but we could probably remove gear as a requirement for member.I f we keep the veteran skill test, then it makes a lot of sense to keep the vanguard requirement since that if the kind of gear you would want to have to successfully pass the test.

Let's look at this though: "Players that wish to join on their own should have or be close to having a full 5-star set of equipment. However, good friends of our guild members can join with any set of equipment."

I remember back when this implemented. Aki decided to raise the gear requirements for joining to be very high, full 5* because back then the guild had a strict cap of 100 and we had almost max capacity. Since the release of the guild hall update we have raised the cap to 150 and could raise it even higher if we needed more room.

GUTTLER'S OPINION: we can eliminate any gear requirement for joining or make it extremely minimal, like 2*. I actually favor a guild in which we have a mix of newbie and oldhat players since grinding FSC and prestige missions gets boring, I'd much rather help some newbie with time enough at last then kill vana for the 4th time in one day.

We also can just raise the cap higher if we hit 150 or make space by kicking out the numerous alt's in Exalt, since when we invited them they were warned "If we need space, alts get kicked first".

How can we make our application better?

So here is our application:
1. Have you read Exalt's Rules and Standards, and do you fully agree to obey them?
2. What are you looking for in a guild?
3. How did you found out about Exalt? (If someone recommended Exalt to you, name who it was and how well do you know him or her.)
4. What is your guild history? (i.e. Which guilds have you been in previously, if any, and why did you leave?)
5. When have you started playing and how active are you? (i.e. How often do you log on and how long do you usually play?)
6. What runs do you enjoy and do regularly?
7. How skilled do you think you are? (A high skill level is not required, but your opinion of your skill level is required.)
8. Are you a team player? (e.g. If your team requires you to do something different to what you're used to, or give away your spot in a guild Lockdown team, what would you do?)
9. What is your play style and favorite weapons?
10. How do you spend your time while in Spiral knights? (chatting, Clockworks, Lockdown, Auction house, etc.)
11. How old are you? Where are you from? (Optional)
12. Would you mind if we displayed where you are from by adding your country flag next to you name on the wiki (if accepted)?
13. Do you have any special requirements to be in our guild and, if so, what are they?
14. Do you wish to have a high rank? If yes, what rank will you be aiming for, what will you do to get it and most importantly, and why do you think you deserve that rank over others?
15. Is there anything about other players, their actions, or anything guild-related that can irritate you and ruin your fun while playing? If so, what would that be?
16. Comment on these weapons: Leviathan blade or CIV, Valliance, Alchemer line, Combuster, Vortex bombs.

16 questions is not terribly long, but we could trim it down. I believe Rhea suggested we combine all the optional question together at the end (flag, age, country, etc.) this seems like an easy solution.

Let me address the question I feel we don't need, starting from the bottom up.

Question 16 was the brainchild of Zeeca. He wanted a way to sort out players who were very elitist and this question actually has an incorrect response. If you say anything like "These weapons are for noobs." that would be an automatic rejection of your application. Now, I haven't ever seen or heard of someones application getting rejected for calling Valiance or Levi trash. What Zeeca wanted was to get high level opinion on the various weapons from players who were well versed in the various weapons. In practice what we get are application from people who there comment on the various weapons reads "I don't own any of these." or "I got a Glacius and am working on Combuster." which is not the informed analysis that the question wants. I'd recommend scraping this question or maybe combining it with question 9 to have it be:

9. What is your favorite weapon in spiral knights? What makes it a fun weapons to use? Do you think it needs to be buffed? (Obviously I'm not as good as writing this stuff as Aba.)

Skipping to 9, I think we could eliminate the "What is your play style" part. I find most people don't fit into a pure style archetype, there are pure swordsmen and pure gunners and pure bombers, but most people get some bombs, some guns, and some swords and play with whatever loadout they fancy.

I think 10, 13, and 14 can all be eliminated as questions. I've never seen an application that had any substantial answer for these questions. 13 always receives a no, 14 gets joke answers like "I'm going to be grand-vizier one day.", and the game has a rather limited amount of things to do, so 10 always gets the same answer from everyone, "I mostly run clockworks, but I also do that other stuff too"

I think 7 and 8 can also go. These are things that I can determine from taking you on your trial run. I don't need a recruit to write about. Has anyone ever gotten a guild application with a no to 8? The part about maybe being required to give up your spot on a GVG team could be handled in a separate section of the wiki for GVG, perhaps an application to join the Exalt GVG team?

I'd like to edit 5, to the remove the "and how active are you part?" In Exalt we are a friendly laid back guild and we would accept someone who plays for an hour each day just as much as someone who plays for 8 each day. I find that play times fluctuate greatly between days so that this question may set an unwarranted expectation on new recruits that they are supposed to play all the time.

I'd like to hear some thought on this, I think having a shorter pithier application that rather then asking very specific questions is more open and gives the applicant freedom to make an impression.

That's all for now. I'll be back with more soon.

Guttler

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Guttler on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:20 pm

I don't have much to say about GVG teams. My thoughts on LD is that it is extremely imba. It's not any fun for me so I avoid it at great lengths. I encourage another officer to show innovative and come up with some ideas for maybe setting up a GVG team.

Probably the best way to start with a GVG organization would be to find an officer willing to take on the duties and have the people who want there to be GVG contact them with what they want and then work around the requests of the players.

I'd like to raise some other issues that I want to get opinion on.

Mist Wells
I was expecting OOO to invent some sort of guild compensation for mist wells, but they simply changed them into strait up CE wells. I see us having a few possible paths on how to progress with these wells.

1. We can turn the wells into a guild energy bank. This would probably require putting them behind an officer or GM door in the guild hall but it would let us keep a stockpile of energy for any purpose. The only downside to this is that I believe a person can only take 100 energy from the well per day which makes withdrawing a sizable amount burdensome.

2. We could set a specific price per 100 energy and try to sell it off to guild members to empty or almost empty out the wells for some fast CR.

3. We could just keep the well exactly as they are now where people can slowly buy up the energy at the 90% rate for whatever purpose they need it for.

It's always possible to move from 1 solution to another overtime so it may be best to just take #3 for now and see how things develop.

Guild Hall Design Mode

"Every veteran or higher is allowed to use the design mode. Try out your ideas, make screenshots, and show your work to the Officers and GMs. When you are done, please make sure that you return everything back to where it was before you started."

Only a GM may publish the guild hall.

I have a strong grudge against this rule, because Aki and Zeeca implemented this rule back in the spring to specifically stop my occasional edits of the guild hall.

In guild hall design mode should be is that all veterans and above can enter and make changes and any officer can publish. My vision is of a guild hall that is ever changing by a little bit each day, rather then a 100% static guild hall.

I think this rule illustrates a trust gap between our old GMs and the then officers, since they trusted us to kick players, handle applications, make millions of crowns for the guild, lead guild shadow lair runs, but we were not trusted to move furniture or buy another chair.

Granted, you would have to make some ground rules if you wanted to extend more open guild hall editing. I'd recommend these:

1. No removing a special room. (AH, alchemy station, training hall, hunter's lodge, bechamel, punch/vise, etc.)
2. Do not change the guild theme or environment. This is to be decided by the officers. (Do you want to have a guild theme or environment? Under Aki and Zeeca everyone disagreed on which theme looked good so it was decided to keep it plain and maybe later when OOO releases new themes we may all like one of those. I've got my fingers crossed for an RJP theme.)
3. Please respect the work of others, especially if it is a new addition.
4. Try to include as many people in the design process as possible. Temporary promotions to veteran are allowed for this purpose.
5. It may be possible to make small purchases of furniture from the guild treasury, but any major purchases must be approved by multiple officers/GMs first. We encourage people to donate to the treasury if they want just one more chair to finish the room they made.

Giant Roarmulus Twins Statue
This seems like a good section to follow the guild hall design mode section.

Currently we have enough schemer scraps to make a giant RT statue. I am holding 4 schemer scraps, 2 of which were donated by Alibabble and Phyll, combined with the 12 we have in the treasury that is enough to craft a giant RT statue. Us officers/GMs need to decide if this is something we want to do.

The materials we need to craft a Giant RT are:
375K CR
Blue Shard 400
Red Shard 400
Bronze Bolt 200
Scrap Metal 200
Gremlin Gizmo 50
Iron Gear 50
Force Dynamo 25
Rocket Sprocket 25
Heavy Gear 50
Meteor Mote 50
Plasma Cell 25
Volcanic Iron 25

It would be possible to get many of those materials by asking for donations from guild members. Hopefully getting the amount of CR needed would be as simple.

My own opinion is that we should make a big RT. It is cool as heck and doesn't really require that much CR/mats to finish off.

Note: Making a big RT statue would remove the medium size RT statues from the console room.

Note 2: If it is decided that we want to make two giant RT statues as a guild, Jyudie mentioned that she has 2 more schemer scraps that could give us a head start on the second one.

Hayashi-Kuro
After leaving Exalt earlier this year, Hayashi recently returned to us. He was a former officer of the guild and is currently sitting at recruit rank. My recommendation is that we promote him up to at least Veteran rank, it will be your decision Plumbledoor if you wish to invite him to serve again as an officer.

The Guild Bank
when Plumbledoor was promoted and took over as GM. I sent him a mail telling him the status of the guild bank and a plan I had come up with for a new use for the funds. Plumble was a little confused because he had no idea that Exalt had been running a guild bank. He asked me to explain it at the officers meeting.

The guild bank was established after the guild hall update due to the high rate of material donations made to Exalt by it's members. The decision was made that I make an officer alt (Kclub) and both sort the guild storages and skim excess mats and sell them on the AH. Eventually these two duties were split to one officer just having to sort the mats in storage and myself just handling the selling of mats for cr.

Kclub made money quite slowly at first, mats don't sell for very much cr individually so the guild bank was very slow to grow, but we since moved on to selling the accessories, costume pieces, and recipes that generous individuals would donate to storage, since then Exalt has amassed a small fortune.

The philosophy behind the guild bank was that since the bulk of donated materials were most often from recruits, members, and veterans that the money earned from selling these excess trade goods should be used to benefit the rank and file members of Exalt, rather then it being spent on special perks for officers/GMs. (Not to be used for furniture, guild upkeep, etc.)

As such the free shadow lair run program came into being. Kclub made money and purchased Shadow Keys which were placed in officer storage. Then we would allow Exaltians to apply for a free shadow lair run. Every run would include 2 newbie members who were likely on there first SL run and 2 veteran players whose presence was needed to make sure the run was successful. The program saw a lot of enthusiasm at first. We've done maybe 6 free runs to date. However, the amount of people that want to do SLs for crafting or adventure purposes has seemed to decline, we've got several keys sitting in storage collecting dust.

I came up with a new idea of how to spend guild funds while keeping on the same philosophy, but I feel the new update may have made it unnecessary.

Potential Idea: Exalt Crafting Assistance
This is my proposed idea to run in addition to the free shadow key program. An exalt member may have trouble getting enough orbs of alchemy to level up a particular item they want to craft up. The idea is that the guild buys these players the orbs of alchemy they need and they then upgrade there weapon or armor with it.

Just like shadow lairs people would have to apply and only a lucky few would be accepted, but we could have it pop up at various periods to make sure members could benefit. We could then add a section to our wiki that listed all the names of the people who received crafting assistance and which item Exalt helped them craft. I think that would create a very interesting section of our guild wiki page that would potentially attract new players to Exalt. We have no taxes and we even help you upgrade that silent nightblade into an acheron!

The big flaw with this plan was waiting until after the big update to pitch it. This would have been amazing to implement had we done it in June or July, since now anyone can just farm orbs from clockworks. As such I feel it may not be a terribly good plan unless orbs become exceptionally rare, because currently I don't see anyone having a problem in crafting items unless they are trying to rush up to full 5*.

I would very much like to hear any suggestions you guys and girls might have for a good plan to spend guild bank money. Remember it should be something that benefits the regular rank and file members and not just about buying new toys for us GMs/officers.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  gera on Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:22 am

Ok fist thing first hi to everyone!
Regarding our business here i will start with something small.

~Design Mode: about this one i agree with Guttler i think a GH should be ever changing, and that to this different people should contribute to it. Veterans should be encouraged to experiment in the DM(design mode),  then take screenshots or show them to an officer if one is online and free at that particular moment, and then this officer should present the idea to at least 2 more officers or GM's  and if all agree it should be published(officers should be able to publish on their own too). But those points that shouldn't be changed that Guttler mentioned should be respected. Maybe add a DM rules and put it on the guild wiki page.

~RT statue: since the statues were introduced i wanted to get the big RT one, but back then many were against it and wanted to keep the 2 medium ones in the console room instead. So we would need to farm 36 more mats, and that is a lot of RT and since not many ppl weren't interested so i just dropped it. But now that we have enough to make its a different story, its a great idea. I already checked, we have all the mats in the treasury except the shards, but there is enough of them in the storage and they are pretty common so we can get them. Other thing that could be gathered a little bit more is CR, we have 800k atm and the statues would be 375k, so 100k-200k would be enough just so we are safe with the upkeep.

~Energy Wells: so at this point we should decide what our goal with the wells should be.As i can see these are the 2 possibilities of what we can do with it.

1. We get rid of all the energy for quick CR, we put 85%-90% cost on the energy taken from it and give the CR to the treasury or Guild Bank(Kclub)

2. We save it for when someone needs emergency energy like for sparks of life, crystals, evo catalysts etc.

~Recruitment and Crafting Help: the crafting help idea was interesting, and rather good, yes it is true that old players will find enough trough runs, but you also suggested that we lower the need for joining alone, so if we have a 3  or 4*  liked or good player that needs help with getting certain equipment or passing HoH that would come in pretty handy, and i think that would bond the one helping him and the one that is being helped even more.

~Free SL runs: so yea couple of months back we had couple of free SL runs, and they were pretty successful(ik because i participated in it). back then it was Aki who organised it, if i am not mistaken.But the latest one where not much ppl showed interest was confusing, i also wanted to join in that one but  i didn't now who i should send an app, what i should write so i just ignored it, so that might be why not much ppl answered(i did find hte info on the wiki but it was too late then). Since we have 4 keys sitting in the storage i suggest we try it again, but give ppl all the info(post it on the wiki, and say to look there in the msg of the day)

That is it for now will write about promotions and the rest latter today.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Sexyven on Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:24 am

- Revise the Ranking Requirements -
The tests must be modified due to the new revive system, as you can't stay dead anymore while giving them. But taking a test should still be challenging in general to show the recruit/member/veteran dedication and also in terms of skills as you expect from a veteran or an officer to be an asset for his team during a run. His skill is there to help other knights from a lower rank.
Also, skill is not the only requirement in tests. Many knights have been promoted in Exalt after they failed their test because we thought they could fit their new rank thanks to their will or personality.
About the officers, let's say I can help people on their run as well as working at making Exalt a better place. I don't think we should make 2 kinds of officers, some of us will naturally be more on runs and others on organisation without giving roles.

- Revise the Recruitment Process -
We should prioritize personality and dedication over skill for recruitment, and I think it is already the case. When testing a new recruit, I usually bring him on a run and don't say anything about any test. Most of the time, the recruit starts wondering on what aspects I am judging him and becomes nervous when actually I am not taking skill into account, just observing his behaviour and the way he interacts with the team.

- GvG Teams -
If some of us are playing GvG and want to create a real guild team, I'm totally fine with it. But this is a lot of organisation, as competitive playing requires at least trainings, a mic and a conference server. But if 1 or more members want to take the responsibility of leading the GvG team, do so.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Guttler on Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:10 am

gera wrote:

~Design Mode: about this one i agree with Guttler i think a GH should be ever changing, and that to this different people should contribute to it. Veterans should be encouraged to experiment in the DM(design mode),  then take screenshots or show them to an officer if one is online and free at that particular moment, and then this officer should present the idea to at least 2 more officers or GM's  and if all agree it should be published(officers should be able to publish on their own too). But those points that shouldn't be changed that Guttler mentioned should be respected. Maybe add a DM rules and put it on the guild wiki page.

Continuing with Design mode comments: I don't know if it's necessary for veterans who want to make changes to be required to take screenshots and those shots be reviewed. Under Zeeca and Aki it was because officers couldn't publish so both GMs needed to be able to look at approve any change. Officers being allowed to publish would allow changes to be inspected as they are happening in real time because our officer availability is so good right now.

I think it's best to encourage a spirit of teamwork with guild hall editing. We don't need to be the council that judges every idea, rather I'd like to see us invite as many veterans as possible into design mode with the officers and see what people can come up with. Design mode is just moving furniture around and changes can be made easily. That being said the officers and GMs will still have to make decisions in the guild hall, mostly relating to sizable expenditures of crowns on furniture.

Here are some other questions that a more open design mode brings up:
1. The Hallways
Currently we have very uniform hallways in the guild hall, each one has it's own group of plants, shields and lights that are color coded based on floor number.
2. The Lofts.
The lofts are the little peninsula areas that are next to the ramps on each floor. Currently we use them to hold our boss statues and some chairs. Lots of other guilds make them into mini rooms that allow for more decoration.

Going forward we'd need to decide if we want to restrict edits to the hallways and lofts to maintain a certain look for the guild hall.

I've visited a lot of different guild halls and sometimes you'll see a loft room and it looks cluttered, but when I look at our space it feels sparse, especially considering how rarely the chairs on the upper floors are used with most guildies and visitors alike preferring to stay on the ground floors.

Incase anyone is wondering what's there to do in the GH:
If we do decide to make the giant size RT statue, we will have to redesign the console room and since we'd take a medium RT from the hunter's lodge that would need a new look.
The 2 room shield maze on the topmost floor was intended to be a temporary place holder until rooms could be made, so that can be stripped and replaced. We could think about adding a theme/environment. Plus, since it's a guild effort, veterans will get ideas and come up with rooms they want to make.

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RE to guttler

Post  gera on Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:30 pm

Hmm yea the free gh changing could be good, i would like to hear what others think about this matter.
The small rooms in the lofts yea i like those idea, but it should be made so that it looks comfortable and not,umm i don't know the English word for it so i will describe it, like many things thrown in a small room.
About redesigning 2 rooms well with couple of ppl it could go pretty well and easy.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread - Part 2

Post  Aba on Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:46 pm

So much in three days since I posted. lol
I will try to cover as much as discussed from everyone.
(Note that each section will pertain to other areas of discussion as well. Read thoroughly.)

- Mist/Energy Wells -
Some, if not all, officers were aware of a former guildmate that in the week he has been with us (end of July) has taken at least 700 mist energy out of our wells, then leaves without reimbursing crowns to Oten. Larpu and I were the ones to notice in the guild records that day, and we went on to discuss options. One idea was to relocate the wells to another room of the hall, but it best felt for the wells to be near the alchemy machines for easy crafting purposes. Thus, the idea was to keep the wells' placement as is, but have "barriers" allowing access to Members and higher. So Larpu made an e-mail to officers proposing the hall change. It was later approved and I was given the green light to make the changes. By the time I logged on, it was already changed to what you see now: a Members door from the south and furniture blocking from the east. So all was already done and fine and dandy. (Note that this was about five days before the extinction of mist energy via the major end-of-July update. )

The well no longer receiving energy bonuses on deposit and a 100 energy limit per knight per day does seem to render it useless. Not entirely useless, but nearly. But each current method of obtaining/selling energy has upsides and downsides.
~ The market: easy to post offers, though others may 1-up other offers or spam offers, energy seller pays 2% crowns in trading fees
~ The guild wells: limited to 100e per knight per day, at a discount price, but sometimes tedious to calculate and mail crowns to Oten, mailing costs of 100cr with attachments, some knights may not even pay
~ Trade between knights: straight up trading of anything (unbound), no fees, just need to find knights that would want to trade

From what I've seen, I'd probably have to agree to no longer needing the wells in the guild hall, unless someone has a reason to keep adding energy to them. Not to get Oten out of his duty. Based on Gera's and Guttler's ideas, here are my thoughts.
1. Have a flat rate of say 7k crowns per 100e taken from the well, sent to Oten.
2. Make a simpler formula. Right now, the formula includes amount of energy; because it will be 100e each time, it's all about 90% (multiplier) of market price minus 100 (for mailing). One idea could be simply subtract 500cr from market price and mail that amount to Oten.
3. Have a contest (daily? weekly?) to where knights send crowns to the Treasury or KClub (guild bank) for a chance to earn energy from the well. (This would require an Officer door and a relocation of the wells so knights can use the alchemy machines. New doors cost 50K from Treasury to install.)
4. Each officer takes daily 100e, sells/trades it, and sends to Treasury or KClub. (Tedious, but would be the fastest way.) (Again, would require officer door and relocation of wells.)


- Guild Hall Design Mode -
In regards to that former guildmate that took mist energy without reimbursing, leading to a small re-design of the lower-right corner of the guild hall, Larpu had recommended me to do the small design change. Although someone else did it soonafter it was approved. Right now (and it has been since implemented) the barrier blocking the east side is composed of bookcases, plants and a battle stand. My original thought was to switch out some battle stands from the "shield maze" and do two of each of the knight, champion, and vanguard stands--one of each facing left, the other facing right. Demonstrating a player should be of higher rank to access the alchemy machines and wells of the guild hall. (Just having to spend money for a Members door.)

Other than that, I only have a few other ideas of themes, but most themes are pretty set in stone (aside of the shield maze) and I wouldn't want to spend much funds on more expensive furniture. And I'm not entirely sure how room themes and tiling work. Probably it should be put to a vote on which rooms our guildmates like and don't like, and think up some ideas of rearrangements.

One simple idea would be to switch the Coliseum and Hunter Lodge locations. The Lodge is located on the second floor, left side, and is primarily used by Officers for crafting. The Coliseum is on the third floor, left side, and can be used by anyone. Can those be switched without having to pay?

I've made mention before on the recent installment of our training hall. We had to expand to the fourth floor in order to purchase the training hall. If we remove the fourth floor, the training hall is removed. Same applies to Punch & Vise's Workshop. Just adding one wing in the fourth floor adds almost 50k to our upkeep, now a total of about 150k upkeep per week. If it comes to a point where it's too much for upkeep and such, is it something to sacrifice?

I see that we can install "Themes and Environments" to our guild hall. Themes are 95k cr. Environments are 45k cr. Is that something to consider?

Our own personal themes to any guild room?
~ A fun one would be to make an Eight Queens room. The room would have a checkered floor with eight of the same pieces of furniture (Jelly Gems?) arranged to be a solution of the Eight Queens puzzle.
~ A casino-themed room? Tough to think up ideas. lol


- Shadow Lairs -
The free Shadow Lair applications are still going and have been going on since around July 8th. The details on what to send and who to send to are still on the wiki.

I was suggested by Zeeca and Guttler to run the free Shadow Lair runs, so I'm giving it ago. Unfortunately, I have only five responses so far: four that have not done any Shadow Lair or want to do a new Shadow Lair ("the newbies") (two of which I have mailed to you all on a prior issue each) and one having done all the lairs ("the veterans"). No officers/GMs applied. I was hoping to yield out two keys, but it seems I may just do one for this time around.

I have put brief details on free Shadow Lair runs in the guild MOTD, only to be removed a couple times before by another putting in a different message. The second time being now: the message only stating for officers to check the forum for the officer meeting. Which confuses me (likewise Geraking) as to if the Shadow Lairs are still ongoing.

Alongside the free Shadow Lair run, in the beginning days, I was also in the works of creating a "generic Shadow Lair run tutorial" on the SK wiki, providing everyone with any and all resources to help them get through any run. A lot of emphasis is on estimating energy costs and major teamwork skills. Thanks to the big update, *throws stack of papers in the air*.

I am assuming we are still going on with free SL runs. Are there more ways to get the word out? Can we have more officers applying as well?

Along with heading the free Shadow Lairs, I am the primary guild wiki editor and among the primary recruiters listed to send applications to. Right now, I feel my biggest strength to this guild is updating and upgrading the guild wiki page. Second is viewing sent applications. Third is Shadow Lairs. If it becomes too much a burden (or in the case that I may  take a break from being on SK often to focus on other life matters), is there another officer that can handle the Shadow Lairs? (I can send over the applicants so far and their answers to the questions.)


- Recruitment -
I recall the last two recruits that have sent their application to me did not get a response when they sent to another officer before. One of them had to re-answer all the questions. I am thankful that they were both patient (and also knew a few of our guildmates). Which brings the point of limiting to four primary recruiting officers as a hindrance. With the current list of those officers and Sir-P with his ongoing puter problems, I can say to suggest probably moving him to the end of the list right now.

Should all of us have the duty to recruit and do away with the "primary recruiters"? Or should we have more primary recruiters in more time zones? Or a "tier-like" system where officers that are on more often than others (as well as more experience in the recruitment process) have higher responsibilities to recruit, read applications in a timely matter, and do recruitment runs? Should we also list the times we are usually on to optimize turnaround time?

With the one having to re-answer all our application's questions a second time... our guild application is long.
~ Question 9. I forgot how I answered that. I don't know the different names of playstyles used in SK, other than what player wiki pages mention, which are a few. Maybe a better, more-generic question in its place (combining with #16) would be like "What (type of) weapons do you use more often? What weapons are you planning to craft in the near future?" If they list swords, guns and bombs, they seem to be an all-rounder. If they list only guns or mostly guns (e.g. Guttler), then they seem to be a gunner-type knight. And so on. Get a general feel of their playstyle.
~ Questions 7 and 8 could be deleted, or maybe combined to an overall skills question. Our motto is "Teamplay or no play" so some teamwork skills (even though the big update took a lot of it away) should be ensured.
~ Questions 6 and 10 can easily be combined. Both asking what you do while on Spiral Knights.
~ Questions 13 and 14, yeah, I'm leaning toward deletion.
~ Questions 4 and 5 can be combined. Both dive into the applicant's history in Spiral Knights. (I agree to removing the "how active are you" part.)

The requirements to join Exalt (friends of guildmates have no requirements, non-friends needing near 5-star gear) makes the guild very exclusive. Having the latter requirement shows that the applicant has a long history with Spiral Knights (doing a lot of crown-grinding) and may be more trustworthy. But that's just me. Even having a near 4-star set is good enough, pending the application and their history. I feel there should be some equipment requirement, but it should not be 2-star. Any new player can very quickly obtain a 2-star set via the rewards of Rank 3-2 missions (Cobalt Helm, Cobalt, Defender, Blast Bomb, Calibur, Blaster) with recipes for their upgrades awarded in later missions (5-2, 6-2, 8-2).


- Extra Crafting Assistance -
Great idea!
It's now all definitely do-able with the help of Orbs of Alchemy being tradable. Also because of the new heating, and the Level 5 requirement to go 3-star to 4-star, and Level 10 requirement to go 4-star to 5-star, maybe getting Warm and Glowing Fire Crystals would minimally help as well. How much to divide between this and Shadow Lairs is up to the officers in charge of this. Probably with the Energy Well, we can use its energy to buy these Rarities at the Supply Depot.


- RT Statue(s) -
IF we have the funds and the time and patience, I'm game for the statues, but I'd prefer having two of the big statues. We don't call them the Roarmulus Twins for nothing, like the Twin Pines Mall in Back to the Future! Very Happy


Enough for now. More to come. Smile

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Guttler on Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:54 pm

Thanks for the long reply Aba.

Crafting Assistance Program/Wells
My initial thought on the launch of the new update that getting orbs is probably too easy and that this program isn't really needed, but it does have some upsides that were mentioned above (really benefits new knights, looks good on our wiki).

If we do go with it's implementation, Aba came up with a good idea in that we can slowly extract energy from the wells and use that to buy the orbs that would be given out as part of the program. We have something like 14,000 CE in the wells currently which could buy 17 people free 5* crafts. However, We would probably have to relocate the wells to an area of the guild hall that was blocked by an officer door to ensure that all ce extractions were done by us.

Shadow Lairs
I favor the continuation of our free shadow key program and I am glad you are handling it Aba. I will mention that whenever I led a guild shadow lair which I did on 2 occasions, I hand picked the veteran player to join me on the run with the 2 newbies. They didn't have to apply, I went to them and asked, "Can you come on a guild shadow lair run?"

I know that by hand picking the party you are asking someone who may not necessarily need a SL run to take up space, but it does allow them to adequately fill the veteran roll. We'll always be able to get more shadow keys if we run low also.

Aba, in that situation just ask some fellow Exaltians if they can join one of the SL runs. It's probably best to do so via private message or mail rather then broadcasting it in g chat, but you'll fill up those parties in no time.

On the wiki
Aba, if the guild crafting assistance program receives a good amount of support or if someone comes up with a new idea on how to spend guild funds that is good, I'd like you to add a section to the Exalt wiki that says:

1. Explains that we have a guild bank and how the bank makes it's cr.
2. Asks for donations and thanks people who donate to the guild storages.
3. Explains the philosophy behind CR expenditure and asks for additional idea from guild members.
Our programs can be highlighted in subsections below it.
a. Free SL Run!
-How to apply
-A call to experienced SL runners to apply for fun, adventure, and to help there fellow Exaltians.
-A general SL guide.
-Maybe a link to the sanctuary alchemy machine page on the wiki?
b. Exalt crafting assistance!
-How to apply.
-Explanation that not everyone who applies will get a free craft.
-A section that congratulates those who have received crafting assistance before that lists there names and the item Exalt helped them make.

The Application.
I'd like to hear more knights opinions about out guild application. Is there anyone who likes certain questions that have been flagged for change/deletion by Aba and I? Have you gotten an application with really good responses to some of the questions flagged for change/deletion? Do you wish to go even further and change something we didn't mention yet? How do you feel about the gear requirement to join? What about the question as to who handles the applications?

I really want to hear this issue fleshed out fully so that we can edit the application ASAP, lots of the other stuff we discuss can follow later.

Guild Hall Design Mode
Themes and Environments have been mentioned. My vision for our design mode is one that includes Veteran rank knights as key users of design mode, so one idea would be to wait a while and send out a mail to all the Veterans (maybe members too?) asking them to all vote on which theme we should choose. We could keep voting open for a few weeks and at the end tally the votes and see if one theme is highly favored. If we get a dead heat between 2 themes we can have a second election with only those 2 on the ballot and as always we should keep a Default/no theme option on the ballot.

Once we have a theme already selected we could do the same thing for environment, I think it's best to split this up into two different votes so that people know we already have a theme selected and can selected an environment that wont clash terribly.

Aba, sadly we cannot switch the location of the special rooms without having to pay for them again and they aren't cheap. We are stuck with them, but that's not so bad. We can open up a lot of design space in the guild hall if we allow rooms to be built on the lofts. While it's good for us to have a set of ideas for new rooms ready, I want us to open design mode up to the veterans and see what they can do. I think we'll be pretty impressed with all the new designs.

RT Statue
Aba, Gera, and I have all said that we favor the building of one (or more) large RT statues. Is anyone opposed?

If everyone is okay with Exalt building a large RT statue, then I'd like to set the guild message to a request for CR donations to the treasury so that we can fund the project.

Member/Veteran Promotions
I did a sweep of some other guilds wiki pages earlier to look at how they handle promotions.

A few guilds did still have skills tests for promotions like we do. I didn't see any guild besides us with a skill test to become officer. At this point I'm leaning to just ditching the officer test. If we need someone we just promote them and then we can have info readied that explain officer duties and guild policies.

Some notable systems for handling the member/veteran promotion:

Time based:
If you stay in the guild for a week you get promoted to member. If you stay for another month you get promoted to Veteran.

It makes for a reliable, non-skill related way to promote knights up in the ranks, but doesn't let us know anything about there skill and becomes a chore for officers because the dates on the wiki will have to monitored so that we promote people at the right time. My personal feeling is that having skill test for Member/Veteran rank is still a better choice.

Everyone is a member!:
A system with no elitism or need for testing because it completely eliminates the recruit and veteran rank. The big problem is that it eliminates veteran storage and the ability of veterans to edit the guild hall.

I'd really like to look at more guilds and maybe get ideas from my fellow officers about a good way to do promotions. I'm not married to skill based testing like Zeeca was, but I can't think of a good alternative system yet.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  gera on Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:04 am

Just a quick response to the application, at first i thought the current one is ok, but after considering it the questions don't really matter that much anymore, and to most we get the same answer so yea we probably should merge/delete the ones you guys suggested

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  gera on Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:17 am

Umm, so Seeyas, a player that left our guild some time ago just decided to start playing SK again, as i remember he was very friendly and a good player wants to rejoin.  He left because he was quitting SK at the time but now after the update he returned to the game, and he thought that the way that aki left was wrong after what she did for the guild.
so should we let him in?
\

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Guttler on Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:25 pm

Seeyas left because he had nobody to play with in his time zone here in Exalt. I believe that he applied to be in Jempire, if he wants back in it means that his application to them was not successful. He didn't leave on bad terms so I don't see any problem with him rejoining.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Guttler on Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:54 am

Geraking, Rhea, and I discuss discussed an interesting idea in officer chat today.

Member/Veteran promotions: Create Your Own Test
This idea stems from these 3 points:

1. Skill testing works well for Member/Veteran promotions.
2. Our current tests may be too hard or too rigid in there rules.
3. What if we added more possible test?

So the idea is that rather then have a testing section that is full of very specific tests with very specific rules and special video tutorials that explain how to complete each one. We could go with a 'create your own test' system (I will call it CYOT from now on). It is now the responsibility of the person wanting to be tested for promotion to come up with a good idea for a test of there skills and then they take that idea to an officer who decides if it's challenging enough and then gives the test.

The promotion seeker has to choose a test that is challenging enough to be considered a test, but also is easy/simple enough to actually be doable by them.

The idea is that to be promoted the test seeker must show of there skills to the examiner. This lets them work in an environment they are comfortable in when they wish to perform there impressive feat.

I think that our current tests of a tier 2 arena solo and d25 all rooms should continue to be accepted for there appropriate promotions, but this could potentially open up new possibilities for people who want to test there skills in other areas.

One good way to do CYOT may be to make it so that a member test must be an impressive feat in tier 2 while the veteran test should use tier 3, except for a very impressive test that could use tier 2.

The different ideas CYOT are limited only by the imaginations of the test seekers. Possible examples that I though up:

-Candlestick Keep
-Fiend Floors
-Compounds
-Solo Boss Runs
-Tier 3 Arena
-Solo Missions (like Silent Legion)
-Danger Rooms

This opens up a lot more potential tests and the promotion seeker can control a lot of different variables to make the test challenging enough to be considered a test. They could increase the number of floors or dead people they are dragging to make it harder or place a special restriction on themselves to increase difficulty.

A test application may look something like:
I want to test for Veteran rank, my plan is to solo D27 FSC with one dead body and no other restrictions.
I want to test for Veteran, my plan is to solo a Candlestick keep floors while dragging 2 dead bodies.
I want to test for Veteran, my plan is to solo jelly king in full proto gear. (If someone makes this there promotion test I will literally fight to be the officer giving the test. I want to see it.)

I want to test for member, I'd like to do all of iron claw munitions factory and RT solo while dragging a dead body.
I want to test for member, I want to do a tier 2 danger room with 1 dead body.

The thing about any new system like this is that we are going to have to ease into it, some people will make tests that are too easy, but they get approved and promoted, some people will want to make tests that are way too hard just to show off. We can work out a 'banned list' of tests as the CYOT system evolves.

My suggestion for banned list:
-Cradle and All/Dauntless Delver: I am not sitting though that as a promotion test.

GUTTLER'S OPINION: You guys know i'm not the biggest fan of skill tests for being promoted. However, I think that a CYOT program may be rather good since it puts the a lot of the controls for success in the hands of the promotion seeker. Basically we are going from a "Here is the test, watch the video, practice soloing it, and good luck" to "Show me your moves!!!!!!!!!!!!!</Captain Falcon Voice>

l still want more feedback on this idea. Looking forward to your responses.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Larpu on Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:22 am

Hi everyone, this is Larpu.

Many thanks for Guttler providing this opportunity for all of us to make a formal discusstion board reagarding current update issues and changes. I have been reading post from day one, slowly but taking notes and comparing the outcomes with what we currently have in guild, rules, regulations, such alike. Great ideas everyone, some are very indepth and valuable!

Here I just one suggestion besides all your remarkable comments. While all discussions here are free of wills, it may be a little bit mixed up in all topics. I recommend to creat separate threads for each sub topic, stick on top, so we may trace down and see what was still pending to solve, and what has been done. All suggestions that comes to that specific area can also be viewed and discussed by our non-officer mambers.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread - Part 2b

Post  Aba on Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:06 pm

I see no objection in having Yashi and now Seeyas back in.
In terms of guild rank, I'm thinking at least Member status, but I leave it to the officers that have been officers longer than I. Smile

I have been rather busy lately, hence my lack of presence in SK. Hope to get on and play a bit more soon. Will also respond to any and all ideas I have not read yet soon.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Guttler on Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:06 pm

Bad news! The hunter's lodge alchemy machine is bugged. Statues require orbs of alchemy to craft, but you can't add rarities to the guild treasury, which makes it impossible to craft the large RT statue until OOO fixes this bug.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Larpu on Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:37 am

Ok now for some real post.

About Energy Well

I hope this is not a big issue to all, but personally see that 14k energy just sitting in the pool for weeks, kinda of making me nuts. I'd totally go for any idea that can withdraw it at regular basis and see the funds have been put in good use, treasury or bank, either one works.

For the energy payment, Oten has expressed the feelings of let members directly put funds into guild treasury. This may need a transitional period, since we all know the energy purchaser (which is Oten's alt at this time) has got the collected funds in trade to get new energy, and currently bank and energy functions separately, in order to make funds in no shortage, re-use the payment may still be the best way. Unless in future bank of guild make profits and good enough to cover the cost of energy funds, I suggest we still using a purchaser, but let member to choose if they wanna deposit it directly to the treasury, or mail it to Oten's alt.

For the method to mail to purchaser: there will be discount, minus the purchase fee.
For the method to directly deposit: no discount, but saves time, and helping upkeep directly.

About Guild Hall Design

Personally, again, I like the feeling of always be able to find something new in the GH. This is just like you sometimes decide to move a chair and plant, but rearranged space to make it a bit different. My suggestions here is, for everyone they may decide to move a thing or two, or major change freely, but ONLY IN ONE ROOM per time per person. We don't want to limit the imagination of creativity, but we also like the guild to be in tidy shape. As for major change, which is theme related or room access, space expansion, etc, anything make the upkeep changing, we leave that to guild masters.

About Recruitment

I trust current recruitment team are doing great. While understanding this could cause a bit delay in response to all applicants since not all of the officers in team got be 7/24 (you need to sleep for the love of God) but, giving a time to applicant to seriously think about what they really doing is also important. If they value more of their time than waiting, and choose so to join other guilds, that is their choice. We all from different background, this is by minimum showing respect to other players, in this situation, the recruitment officers. This is also the process we can see if the applicants truly as what they described as they were.

About Promotion/Advancement

Ranking has always got a bit debates, I like skilled players who knowing what they do all the time, but I also like the well organized players can perfectly taking care of themselves and teammates. This is also been brought on exam taking. To be able to advance, one needs to fulfill both skills and ability showing they care and able to take care of fellow guildies, imo. High skilled players may not necessarily be good guild officers, but as an officer, skill in battlefield is a must.

To be able to join officer rank, one must meet:
1. skilled enough to take care of most battles and cover teammates (not just guild members)
2. willing to become an officer and there is a need to have one
3. contribution to guild has been received a general acknowledgement and awareness (even just small things)

Detailed test conditions I want to entrust with other talented officers to plan with.

About Assisting Crafts / RT Statues

Give me a shout and let me know what you need. We'll start from there.

ABout Returning Guild Members

Of course, welcome back! I suggest we give them member status immediately for their privilege of reinstatement. If members left as vet or higher, a re-test on that level exam is a must. Why? This is also the perfect time for returned guildies to make others familiar with you after your absent time. I have no doubt in the skills of these once legendary guild members, it just that they need to be known to the guildies. Plus, when they passed the exam again, they will also be recognized once more, I see no hurt in doing this.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  rhea86 on Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:25 am

Gah, so many things to respond to XD I hope I covered most of it.

Recruitment

Aba wrote:Should all of us have the duty to recruit and do away with the "primary recruiters"? Or should we have more primary recruiters in more time zones? Or a "tier-like" system where officers that are on more often than others (as well as more experience in the recruitment process) have higher responsibilities to recruit, read applications in a timely matter, and do recruitment runs? Should we also list the times we are usually on to optimize turnaround time?
I believe in more Officers reviewing the applications because of time zones and availability. Longswordman, thankfully was patient, but I couldn't get back to him for a few days since I was busy with work. I think it could be organized by time zones first, and then by how often they are available.

Guttler wrote:I also want to see a discussion about what to look for in a guild application to Exalt so that each officer can be consistent in the type of app they accept or reject. It would be easy to test various officers officers on this too because you could make some 1* alt and write a fake application and send it to 2 or 3 officers and see the verdicts, so that you could determine if someone in particular is being too harsh or too lax in there judgment of apps.
I don't think there's a problem with reviewing the applications, but that's just my guess. A test would be the best way to determine who's been too harsh or too lenient (though, I can say I'm guilty of the latter =p ). Then we can determine if training is necessary. But I don't think a surprise test with a fake applicant is necessary. We're mature here; we can give honest answers (^^)

Guild Application Form

It's actually not my intention to make the application shorter; I was simply organizing it and put all the optional questions together. I actually like the length of  the guild application. I have seen immature people complain and throw a tantrum because of it's length and demand a spoken test or immediate invite. And I think, "Aaaand the application form serves it purpose." It could be reworked/reworded though, maybe something like this, taking Aba's and Guttler's opinions into account:

  1. Have you read Exalt's "Rules and Standards", and do you fully agree to obey them?
  2. How did you find out about Exalt? If someone recommended you, who was it and how well do you know him?
  3. What are you looking for in a guild?
  4. What other guilds have you been in (if any) and why did you leave?
  5. When did you start playing Spiral Knights and what do you enjoy doing in Spiral Knights?
  6. What runs do you enjoy doing and what runs do you do regularly?
  7. Please tell us about your best and worst teamwork experience you've been in.
  8. What are your favorite weapons and what type(s) of weapons (swords, bombs, and/or guns) do you usually bring for runs?
  9. Is there anything about other players, their actions, or anything guild related that you don't like or can ruin your fun? If yes, what are they?
  10. (Optional Questions) How old are you? Where are you from? Do you mind if we add your country's flag next to your name on the Wiki (if accepted)?

Notes:
Numbers refer to original app form.

#4 - [reworded] Having a sample question to explain the question is unnecessary; reworded to make it easier to understand
#5 - [reworked] Removed the active part, combined with #10, and reworded. Slight question change and no examples to open the question up a little
#7 - [deleted] Could be just a way to see if someone really thinks highly of themselves to the point of being a jerk, but even then, we won't know if someone is joking or not with that kind of answer.
#8 - [reworked] This could be changed. I didn't want to just ask a simple yes or no question, and I couldn't think of anything else. The end part could also be reworded. It sounds odd, grammatically speaking.
#9 - [reworked] Going along with Aba's idea, I came up with the second question. The next set of weapons or gear they craft next may not necessarily be what they normally use. I'm a swordie/bomber, but I crafted some alchemers as a fun trial.
#11 - [reworked] combined with #12 and reworded for simplicity
#13 - [deleted] It's kinda the same as #2
#14 - [deleted] Same thoughts as #7. If someone wants to be an Officer or GM down the line, we can ask these questions then
#15 - [reworded] Just slightly, to make it shorter.
#16 - [deleted] Not a necessary question


Rank Promotions and Tests

I think that being promoted to Member or Veteran should still require a skill test. It is something easily testable, and you would like to be able to have a smooth run by having skilled players. I certainly don't think it should be an automatic promotion based on time; I agree with Guttler's points on that one.

For Officers, perhaps they don't need a skill test. When they're recruited, I'm assuming you're looking at qualities aside from skill (or least it's a small part of it). I like Guttler's idea of a Managerial-type of test. We can include Officer-type scenarios we've encountered in the test.

I like the idea of Creating Your Own Test. However, it will be difficult to determine if something is a suitable test for the promotion they're aiming for. But I guess we can try it out and see how it goes as long as we think of some restrictions first. The D0-29 is a good one. I think a time limit should be set as well on whatever test they choose. I don't want to sit through any Proto Gear CYOT's that takes over an hour to do. I'm thinking 30min, but some feedback would be great. They don't have to finish in exactly that time, but around it is fine.

Guild Hall Design Mode

I don't mind if Veterans change the Guild Hall as long as there are restrictions to it. I agree with most of Guttler's restrictions. As for purchasing furniture, I think that if they want to use the Treasury to purchase funds, whether big or small, should require approval from Officers and GM. This is just to avoid making several small purchases spread out in a week or so. However, if they use their own CR, then they can get whatever they want without approval.

Guttler's GH restrictions refresher:
1. No removing a special room. (AH, alchemy station, training hall, hunter's lodge, bechamel, punch/vise, etc.)
2. Do not change the guild theme or environment. This is to be decided by the officers. (Do you want to have a guild theme or environment? Under Aki and Zeeca everyone disagreed on which theme looked good so it was decided to keep it plain and maybe later when OOO releases new themes we may all like one of those. I've got my fingers crossed for an RJP theme.)
3. Please respect the work of others, especially if it is a new addition.
4. Try to include as many people in the design process as possible. Temporary promotions to veteran are allowed for this purpose.
5. It may be possible to make small purchases of furniture from the guild treasury, but any major purchases must be approved by multiple officers/GMs first. We encourage people to donate to the treasury if they want just one more chair to finish the room they made.

For new themes and environments, I'll leave it up to you other guys for ideas. I don't have an eye for this sort of thing. Although, the Queen's Crown seems interesting. Makes me think of a giant chess or checkers match right in the GH Design Mode XD

Mist Well and Guild Bank

I'm a little wary about the Crafting Assistance idea. Because this would mean only certain people would qualify for assistance, is it fair that other people don't get help? In addition, finding a good balance of prerequisites could be difficult. There are lots to consider; rank, total/current gear, or length of time in SK/being in guild, for example.

But I do like the other ideas presented. I can't decide on a favorite though.

RT Statues

At the time, when Zee went around asking people who most contributed Schemer Scraps, whether they liked the medium or large one, I was one of the ones who preferred the medium-sized ones. It's easier to fit them into places, they look cuter, and you could have more of them around for decoration. To me, the big ones are just too big, and you would need to work hard for 2 of them instead of one to match the boss. However, since I'm not contributing anymore Schemer Scraps as of late, perhaps you can see who's been donating them recently and asking them what their thoughts on it are? (Even though, I know it looks like you guys have decided to make the big ones already =p )

Shadow Lair Runs

I would like to participate in more SL runs for sure, however, my work schedule is different week to week, and I'm unsure when and if I have the time for a SL run, which is why I didn't apply. I don't know if this is also the same for others. If people are unsure whether they can make it or not, perhaps have an "on call" list, where you have people's SL info. When 2-3 people are ready for a run and need an Officer or an experienced SL runner, they can look at the list, see if that person is online and hope he's available for SL that day. (This idea could use some refinement, I know.)

* * * * *
And yeah, I agree with Larpu on creating threads for specific discussions we're having here, so it's easier to track.
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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Guttler on Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:44 am

Thanks for the great reply Rhea.

Recruitment

Rhea had a great idea of indicating when different officers are usually active on the 'How to Join' section. We already have the flags up on the wiki, but if added a sentence like "Please submit your application to the officer in the most similar time zone to your own for the quickest response." it would make people stop and think about the flags and to who they should submit there application.

Guild Application Form

Rhea, I appreciate the hard work of combining Aba and I's different thoughts. I like the new application form you presented. However, you do raise a legitimate concern:

Rhea wrote:I actually like the length of the guild application. I have seen immature people complain and throw a tantrum because of it's length and demand a spoken test or immediate invite. And I think, "Aaaand the application form serves it purpose."
One way we could address this is by adding a sentence before the application on the wiki that said something like "We expect you to take this guild application seriously and take some time writing out full answers. If we receive an application where every question has a 1 word answers we will devote as much time to reading it as you did to writing it, 2 seconds."

Granted that sounds a bit harsh. My thoughts are that since joining a guild in SK isn't something you do everyday, you should take your time and write out a mature and appropriately long response to the questions. I have no qualms about asking a potential recruit to resubmit there application because they were too pithy/kurt in there original submission.

I have another concern with the application too, but I think Abatheguy is the only one who can address this. We've had the app buried in the how to join section and the most common question I get from potential recruits is "Where is the application?" because they browse right past it. Is there anyway we could make it more visible on the wiki? Is it possible to add a link where someone could download a word/(whatever other text editor people use) file with the application questions and instructions already typed into it?

To be continued.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Guttler on Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:50 am

'Create Your Own Test' Name.
If we do implement CYOT's we should probably use a snazzier names, like Skill Showcase or Skill Display. Any ideas?

Potential Idea: Exalt Crafting Assistance
When I originally pitched this idea it was right after the patch with orbs dropping quite often. I think orb drop rates might be rare enough now that the benefit of such a program could be desirable.

Rhea wrote:I'm a little wary about the Crafting Assistance idea. Because this would mean only certain people would qualify for assistance, is it fair that other people don't get help? In addition, finding a good balance of prerequisites could be difficult. There are lots to consider; rank, total/current gear, or length of time in SK/being in guild, for example.
Let me clarify some things I said in my original post that may have been misinterpreted. So one thing I said is that the philosophy behind guild bank funds is that it is used to benefit the rank and file members of the guild. This does not mean that officers and even GMs can't qualify for the program, just that the program shouldn't discriminate against regular members, so it would be possible for any guild funded program to benefit the GMs and officers, just like how many of the SL leaders on current shadow key program end up being officers.

As for prerequisites for the program:
Rank - Member minimum seems like a good base. The guild bank draws it's funds from donations made to member and veteran storage, so since Recruits cannot contribute to that it seems just to restrict them from the benefits.

Total/Current Gear - I am not sure how this would factor into the review of applications to receive a free craft. It could either play no part at all or be a huge deal. The thing is that people who have a high amount of total gear are not usually making new items often, so I think they would not apply for crafting assistance, but if they did we may have to consider what item they are applying for crafting assistance on.

For example, I think an application from a knight who owned a lot of swords and had the skolver, vog, and snarbolox armor sets, but was applying for orbs to make a shivermist buster or blitz needle may be approved, but that same knight applying for help crafting a winmillion, sudaruska, or a 2nd combuster would probably be denied.

One thing we could do is ask people that applied to tell us why getting that new piece of gear would be a benefit to them.

One thing is that it would be possible for us to run the crafting assistance program behind the scenes without any hard rules written in stone, that would allow us more of a spirit to be generous with the program then strict and stingy.
(Oh, part of my vision for this is that applications are not ongoing. We have open periods
where applications are accepted and we set an end date, then we make decisions and close the assistance for a little while to let the guild bank build up funds.)

Let's say we 30 eternal orbs of alchemy in the bank and decide to open up applications for crafting assistance for the next 7 days. At the end of the week we have 20 applications. Now some of those we will be able to eliminate strait away, (like Guttler's application to craft an iron Slug, who makes that gun? Gross!) this would probably be because the applicant is of the wrong rank, applying for an item that brings them little real benefit, they already received crafting assistance in a recent open period, or they completed the item on there own after they submitted there application.

Now we are left with fewer then 10, we can just hand out the orbs, but say we have 13 or so good applications asking for assistance, we could make hard choices about who gets help, or we could just buy 9 more orbs and help them all.

I think right now the biggest obstacle to this potential idea is that we don't know how many and who from would send in an application to receive crafting assistance. It would probably be a good idea to start the program first on a trial basis and we can make a decision if we want to continue it or modify it moving forward as a result of the initial trial run. The same can be said for many of the ideas being floated around in this thread.

Shadow Lair Program: 'On Call' List
Maybe a better name would be Shadow Lair Gurus or Mentors.

This is an excellent idea. It seems our current problem with the Free Shadow Lair program is that people who are experienced in doing shadow lairs aren't applying for the free keys, because they may not necessarily need to do SL at that time. So we basically keep permanent applications from these gurus on hand and use them to fill out parties when we assemble 2 newbies.

My personal experience: I've led two free key runs, one to Shadow Snarbolox and one to Ice Queen. Both times I hand picked the other veteran to accompany the 2 newbies and myself into the shadow lair. I just went up and asked them "Can you do SL with me on this day?" sometimes it took a little arm twisting, but it does mean that you get 2 experienced players who are needed to make sure the run is a success.

I really like the idea of having a set of players on a list that we can draw from to fill out SL parties. I'd like to submit my name for inclusion on such a list. I'll lead Snarbo or IQ anytime.

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Re: Officers Meeting Thread

Post  Sir-Plumbledoor on Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:30 am

Thanks for all the input officers, even if Guttler made part of my brain explode with so many words, nice to see enthusiasm though
Right, time for revised proposals as to what we can do based on what you have said, I will put up several separate forumn links to have the topics separate as it makes it easier to think what's best for those areas, though of course, we can't keep talking forever

The topic secions will be as follows

Ranking
Recruitment
General Running
Guildhall
GvG (This one will be open to all members as I mainly proposed this for those who would want to be in the offical fray and such)

Please continue the discussions over on the topic posts
These topic areas will reamin open if there should ever be times anyone thinks we need change in the future be it soon or years down the line
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